Some Principles of Democracy

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Roger
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Some Principles of Democracy

Post by Roger »

Anyone living, working, and learning in the United States of America eventually realizes that the freedoms we often take for granted are too often abused by certain groups and certain individuals for the benefit of their selfish desires, for personal gains.

Sometimes these abuses of our freedoms constitute criminal acts. In rare cases these actions go beyond the pale and become constitutional issues, where it becomes a constitutional crisis. A undermining of the fundamentals of US democracy. The founding fathers had emplaced certain safeguards against the possibility of such anti-constitutional actions, however, when people are intent on breaking the constitution then they'll do whatever they can to remove whatever impediments are opposing their un-American goal.

Yes, un-American!

I mean, how else people who would abolish the United States Constitution be thought of and referred to but as un-American?

As per the US Constitution, as found on
uscode.house.gov,
CHAPTER 115—TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES

§2383. Rebellion or insurrection
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

§2384. Seditious conspiracy
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

§2385. Advocating overthrow of Government
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

As used in this section, the terms "organizes" and "organize", with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
Maybe un-American is a bit too mild?

Let us call them by what these people really are... TRAITORS!

To harsh? But that's exactly what those who work to deconstruct democracy are, traitors to democracy, traitors to the United States.

We can once more refer to a common source to define the term, traitor.

As per Merriam-Webster Dictionary a traitor is defined as,
1: one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty
2: one who commits treason
Perhaps the Oxford Dictionary defines traitor differently,
A person who betrays someone or something, such as a friend, cause, or principle.
Hmm...Let's try Free Dictionary, maybe they have a different definition of traitor,
*One who betrays one's country, a cause, or a trust, especially one who commits treason.

*a person who is guilty of treason or treachery, in betraying friends, country, a cause or trust, etc

*1. a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.
*2. a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.
Nope, still the same definition. Interestingly, traitor is directly tied to treason in one of the definitions. Which makes sense.

The United States Constitution is pretty straight forward in spelling out how things should be run if this nation is to remain a republic. Furthermore, people in various jobs have to take a oath to protect the very constitution others are trying to tear down. This oath is not time limited, it doesn't have special circumstances where the duty can be set aside, in fact, it's a life long devotion against those who would becomes enemies of the US constitution.

And yes, people are going to interpret the words in the US Constitution to fit and support their own understanding of what the constitution means and how it should be applied and enforced. But that doesn't make it right or lawful. No person can say they are abiding by the US Constitution then behave and act in contravening manner toward this most very important document.

Anyway, think about it.


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Roger
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Re: Some Principles of Democracy

Post by Roger »

My earlier post in this thread really came off as sloppy. My only excuse is I was in a rush, trying to get the post done before I had to go out. I'm sorry about that, although I believe most folks if not all, can make out the gist of what I'm saying.

After what happened today at the national capital, it's imperative that we adhere to the US Constitution more than ever. Nor do I mean the rioters, for they and the politicians who can't abide by the popular vote, and try to force the election results toward a false conclusion are traitors of the lowest caliber. This is my opinion.

I'm saddened that we've come to this, for at one time not too long ago we were regarded as the most powerful, the most stable, and the most advanced nation on earth. We were the leader of the West. The arch enemy of those who stood for tyranny and anarchy. Now, today, we've become the poster child of the very thing we have fought against for so long.

Trump is no leader, he's no president, he's not even a politician. Trump is just a conniving showman, a con man. someone who enjoys the limelight and will do anything to stay in the forefront of attention. He has proven again and again that he doesn't care about people, as he will fire anyone that can't or won't do what he wants, even the greatest bootlicker won't last long if that person doesn't come through each and every time.

For those supporters of Trump, especially those blind supporters, what they've accomplished today wasn't in regards to the US Constitution, but for King Trump.


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Re: Some Principles of Democracy

Post by Roger »

The United States Constitution specifically explains the election laws for voting, and how the laws should apply.

First, that implies that a fair and honest election has occurred. With the US presidential election of 2020, those states that held the majority of electoral college votes were run by Republicans in key positions that would insure that the election was honest, the vote count was also honest, but mostly importantly, this would guarantee the integrity of the election. So unless these Republicans were in cahoots with their counterparts, the Democrats, there was no fraud, or cheating, or otherwise a stealing of the presidential election.

Instead, because of the rampant lies by the present, but very soon, departing, US president millions of people used the lies of stealing the election as a pretext to circumnavigate the US Constitution and to overthrow the legally elected US government. Why? My opinion is the far-right, the extremist-right, the radical-right, decided to keep the power, by any means necessary. So what if a duly elected president, one where the majority of the citizens of the United States of America voted for, was now due to take over? According to those radicals it didn't fit their agenda. So they tried to overthrow the legitimate US government. These right wing radicals were so incised they even wanted to kill the US vice-president. When the radical right decided to attack the seat of the United States government, they quit being right wingers and became traitors to the US Constitution, and thus the insurgents.

What's nearly as bad, is the extremists right stood up and challenged the election results and wanted to overturn the election results, results that were the will of the people.

These people thought their politics were above the rest...

The 147
The Shameless Traitors

Senate

Tommy Tuberville, Ala.; Rick Scott, Fla.; Roger Marshall, Kan.; John Kennedy, La.; Cindy Hyde-Smith, Miss.; Josh Hawley, Mo.; Ted Cruz, Texas; Cynthia Lummis, Wyo.

House

Robert B. Aderholt, Ala.; Mo Brooks, Ala.; Jerry Carl, Ala.; Barry Moore, Ala.; Gary Palmer, Ala.; Mike Rogers, Ala.; Andy Biggs, Ariz.; Paul Gosar, Ariz.; Debbie Lesko, Ariz.; David Schweikert, Ariz.; Rick Crawford, Ark.; Ken Calvert, Calif.; Mike Garcia, Calif.; Darrell Issa, Calif.; Doug LaMalfa, Calif.; Kevin McCarthy, Calif.; Devin Nunes, Calif.; Jay Obernolte, Calif.; Lauren Boebert, Colo.; Doug Lamborn, Colo.; Kat Cammack, Fla.; Mario Diaz-Balart, Fla.; Byron Donalds, Fla.; Neal Dunn, Fla.; Scott Franklin, Fla.; Matt Gaetz, Fla.; Carlos Gimenez, Fla.; Brian Mast, Fla.; Bill Posey, Fla.; John Rutherford, Fla.; Greg Steube, Fla.; Daniel Webster, Fla.; Rick Allen, Ga.; Earl L. "Buddy" Carter, Ga.; Andrew Clyde, Ga.; Marjorie Taylor Greene, Ga.; Jody Hice, Ga.; Barry Loudermilk, Ga.; Russ Fulcher, Idaho; Mike Bost, Ill.; Mary Miller, Ill.; Jim Baird, Ind.; Jim Banks, Ind.; Greg Pence, Ind.; Jackie Walorski, Ind.; Ron Estes, Kan.; Jacob LaTurner, Kan.; Tracey Mann, Kan.; Harold Rogers, Ky.; Garret Graves, La.; Clay Higgins, La.; Mike Johnson, La.; Steve Scalise, La.; Andy Harris, Md.; Jack Bergman, Mich.; Lisa McClain, Mich.; Tim Walberg, Mich.; Michelle Fischbach, Minn.; Jim Hagedorn, Minn.; Michael Guest, Miss.; Trent Kelly, Miss.; Steven Palazzo, Miss.; Sam Graves, Mo.; Vicky Hartzler, Mo.; Billy Long, Mo.; Blaine Luetkemeyer, Mo.; Jason Smith, Mo.; Matt Rosendale, Mont.; Dan Bishop, N.C.; Ted Budd, N.C.; Madison Cawthorn, N.C.; Virginia Foxx, N.C.; Richard Hudson, N.C.; Gregory F. Murphy, N.C.; David Rouzer, N.C.; Jeff Van Drew, N.J.; Yvette Herrell, N.M.; Chris Jacobs, N.Y.; Nicole Malliotakis, N.Y.; Elise M. Stefanik, N.Y.; Lee Zeldin, N.Y.; Adrian Smith, Neb.; Steve Chabot, Ohio; Warren Davidson, Ohio; Bob Gibbs, Ohio; Bill Johnson, Ohio; Jim Jordan, Ohio; Stephanie Bice, Okla.; Tom Cole, Okla.; Kevin Hern, Okla.; Frank Lucas, Okla.; Markwayne Mullin, Okla.; Cliff Bentz, Ore.; John Joyce, Pa.; Fred Keller, Pa.; Mike Kelly, Pa.; Daniel Meuser, Pa.; Scott Perry, Pa.; Guy Reschenthaler, Pa.; Lloyd Smucker, Pa.; Glenn Thompson, Pa.; Jeff Duncan, S.C.; Ralph Norman, S.C.; Tom Rice, S.C.; William Timmons, S.C.; Joe Wilson, S.C.; Tim Burchett, Tenn.; Scott DesJarlais, Tenn.; Chuck Fleischmann, Tenn.; Mark E. Green, Tenn.; Diana Harshbarger, Tenn.; David Kustoff, Tenn.; John Rose, Tenn.; Jodey Arrington, Texas; Brian Babin, Texas; Michael C. Burgess, Texas; John R. Carter, Texas; Michael Cloud, Texas; Pat Fallon, Texas; Louie Gohmert, Texas; Lance Gooden, Texas; Ronny Jackson, Texas; Troy Nehls, Texas; August Pfluger, Texas; Pete Sessions, Texas; Beth Van Duyne, Texas; Randy Weber, Texas; Roger Williams, Texas; Ron Wright, Texas; Burgess Owens, Utah; Chris Stewart, Utah; Ben Cline, Va.; Bob Good, Va.; Morgan Griffith, Va.; Robert J. Wittman, Va.; Carol Miller, W.Va.; Alexander X. Mooney, W.Va.; Scott Fitzgerald, Wis.; Tom Tiffany, Wis.


These 147 traitors took a oath to protect the US Constitution, and when they voted to overturn the election, they betrayed the very thing they swore to protect. That's not to mention all of the police officers, the fire personnel, and the military veterans who also took the same oath to protect the US Constitution, to abide by the law, and to protect the weak, defenseless and innocent.

Their unlawful actions took something from us, from the American people that depend on the stability and tradition of the US government, especially when there is a transition of power. They took hope and instilled doubt, they took certainty and brought confusion, they abused their rights as citizens and took to violence and abuse to intimidate those who value the very things that these insurgents want to destroy.

I hope they all get caught and punished for the high crimes committed against the Constitution. As for those traitorous Senators and Representatives, I hope that the their brethren have the withal to do whatever they can to have them removed from their seats.


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Roger
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Re: Some Principles of Democracy

Post by Roger »

I'm going to keep all this political crap in one thread, so as not to drown the board in BS.

Some of you will agree with what I say, others will disagree most vehemently, then there are those who will wait and see, being very noncommittal. That's great, I want everyone to have their own thoughts and their own opinions, it would even be better if those opinions were at least dipped in some fact before being put on the argument grill.

To start I want to discuss the 14th Amendment, Section 3, which states...
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.


This section is very clear as to it's meaning and how to apply such. So yeah, all those people who hold government positions, and that's assuming this includes the President of the United States, like US Senators and US Representatives, and others. who stood up against a lawful election process and its results simply because their presidential candidate didn't win, are considered aiding and abetting the insurrectionists, so they should be removed from their governmental positions of power, never to hold such unless allowed by the US Congress.

Don't agree, okay, but what if, next time. they do manage to overturn a presidential election because they don't trust (or agree) the election process and it's results because their guy lost, so they get their guy or gal back in, by force, and continue to do so until they get old and die. Are we still the Great Democracy? Nope. Not even close. For this particular form of government to work and to work properly, the will of the majority must be heeded, or else there will be a uprising. The majority didn't care for Trump, and even less so after he won the 2016 election, yet the will of the majority must be abided by. So Trump became the 45th president of the United States, regardless if what the other half of the voters felt.

That's how democracy works, until the Republicans decided to upend it, to destroy the trust held for 245 years, to cause unrest with their falsehoods and idiotic rhetoric. The democratic process will forever be tainted, to not be trusted, results will be eternally questioned over the slightest suspicion.

People like S. Hannity, L. Graham, L. Ingram, C. Tucker; the talking heads of the extremist right, achieved over the last 20 years something that mo one ever thought would happen, except for the Soviets, excuse me, the Russians, and the Chinese, and the N. Koreans, and several Middle East countries, and so on. The demise of America certainly had some celebratory attendees. Way to go you Communistic Totalitarian pieces of *!

Okay, I've had my say for the day.

Thanks for reading, even if you don't agree.


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